Complex energy transport tarifs in price groups

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D	Daniel Gorodowienko

If Monta made the system to allow to follow energy spot prices, there should be an option to configure transportation price part in a more complex manner, as well.
Currently in Denmark in many plans that bill part follows the time of the day.
For example in my case I pay one price per kWh during the summer. During the winter I have 2 different prices: one for time between 17:00 to 20:00 and one for the rest of the day. From the year 2023 that setup becomes even more complicated with division to 3 different day prices during the winter time.

15-11-2022 -

Activity Newest / Oldest

Sune (Monta)

Post moved to this board

Sune (Monta)

Status changed to: Released

Christian Løth

Suggest adding the differentiated transport fee the electricity Company charges to the cost of electricity, as this will affect optimum time for charging. Charged our car via smartcharge last night and system charged from 04.00 to 08.00. Given Andel has lowest fee between 00.00 and 06.00 it would have been better charging between 02.00 and 06.00

Tobias S

Merged with: Add transport fee in charging cost

Daniel Gorodowienko

I don't know who is interested with a graph that shows pure electricity price.
I would imagine that at least most of us are interested in real cost. That is electricity, transportation, VAT and any other kWh related charge.

Tobias S

Agreed. The plan is to update the graph in Insights to include everything, if you have specified your electricity costs.

Could you imagine a use case where you'd want to toggle different prices on/off in the graph? E.g. toggles for VAT / Tariffs / Electricity fees, or should we always include everything?

Daniel Gorodowienko

For me it's enough with a final result.
I am interested to see how much costs me each charging, actually.
So perfectly would be to include that information in charge details report.

Tobias S

Good point. We'll make sure home charging costs are reflected in your Charge summary and Charge history.

Tobias S

Merged with: Electricity cost in the Insights should consider tariff (transport cost)

Tobias S

Hi, here's a first draft of how we consider to add Tariffs into the Electricity price setting. Based on the DSO (distribution operator) we have mapped all the variable tariffs throughout the day.

For now we are excluding any monthly subscriptions from both utility company and net company, as they also apply to all your other electrical appliances.

Are we missing anything that you would expect to be there?
We'd also love feedback on the explanations as well; do they communicate the concept clearly?

/Tobias

Martin Hans

That looks excellent! I assume the DSO and discount field also appear if we choose a fixed price.

RasmusAnd

It looks great but it would also be great and provide reassurance that the insights are correct if you could access/see the tariffs applied throughout the day (see attached).

There’s so many DSOs who can change their tariffs independently, so the chance of something going wrong is quite high I think.

So would be nice as a user to be able to double check that the tariffs you apply are indeed correct. And if they aren’t, you will be able to fix it quicker because there’s transparency towards the user pool.

Tobias S

Thank you for the feedback Rasmus, it's a good point.
I can't see your attachment, but currently we have this chart in our Portal (attached).
I could definitely be improved visually, but would this provide the reassurance you seek?

Tobias S

Yes Martin 👍 (forgot to add the fixed price use case)

Thomas Jansson

Looks great, but a stacked bar chart would be even better I my opinion. Does the calculation all the elements such as "spot", "afgifter", "transport" and "moms" or is just "spot" and "transport" for now?

Tobias S

Agree, the chart definitely needs some work!

Spot (and any additional 'el-pris'), Transport and Moms is included in the calculation (moms can be toggled off in Advanced settings).

For now the 'Elafgift' is not included as it's 1 øre, but it would make sense to include that in the future solution.

We are also not including the 'netabonnement' or any other monthly electricity 'abonnement' from the utility company, as these goes beyond EV consumption.

Frederik Szécsi

Hi Tobias, Look good.
Just to be sure. Is the DSO only the "nettarif" to Radius etc. or also the ~14 øre to Energinet.
/ Frederik

Søren Birch

We might be an edge case, but in our House Association we have a "semi fixed" price for our 2 charge points. But as the Association pays the energy bill for all electricity spent, we pay an average of the KWh price from the month to Ørsted. So for example, November was 4,70 pr KWh incl. VAT, tariffs.
December ended up at 4,17 per KWh.

So Spot pricing doesn't work for us, even if the EV charges at night. The KWh price we pay is calculated as an average of total consumption of all hours in the month.

The entire electricity bill is about 1450 KWh per month right now, of which around 350 are for EV charging.

This consumption is not reported to Ørsted, so we have to manually calculate the cost. And that is why Spot pricing doesn't work well for us either.
EVs charging during Peak just increases over overall average KWh price, so we really want to encourage them to charge off-peak. And what better incentive is there to save money?

This means that your suggestion cannot accommodate our use case.

For it to work I would have to create 2 or to 3 price groups and have them applied at different times of the day, charging a higher fixed cost pr. KWh for charging between 17 and 21.
The extra charge could just be the peak transmission tariff.
However, right now you cannot have different price groups for your chargers unless you make them public.
But ours are not, they are privately owned, and we're really not interested in having strangers parking here and charging until the Monta features controlling how that works are significantly improved as from what it is right now.

Example:
Group A is Fixed price + Tariff 1 (00- 06)
Group B is Fixed price + Tariff 2 (06-17 and 21-00)
Group C is Fixed price + Tariff 3 (17-00)
Fixed price in our case is 4,17 (based off of last month's bill) of which the energy price itself is just 2,11- the rest is a mix of VAT, tariffs, taxes.

We will never be able to hit the precise cost per hour, but if we can at least shape consumption by having higher prices during peak, it would help a lot.

Dora Vagner

Hey Søren! Thank you for the feedback. We would like better understand your case. Do you have time for a chat?

You can book from my availability here:
calendly.com/doravagner/meet-dora

RasmusAnd

I think that chart is hard to decipher. Especially when we are talking small nuances.

I tried to upload a screenshot from the Danish "Elspotpriser" app where the tariffs used for you as a user is listed hour-by-hour.

Tobias S

Status changed to: In progress

Martin Hans

As of the beginning of 2023 this feature is necessary for the SmartCharge scheduler to calculate correctly.

As end users we are charged this fee on top of the spot price and some fixed fees. Since it varies by time of day, the scheduler will odten make the wrong choice without this information. For example, here are the prices for the company that serves my area: radiuselnet.dk/elnetkunder/tariffer-og-netabonnement/

Tobias S

Hi Martin. We have now mapped out all the new tariffs based on area and are currently working on including them in both Insights and for the SmartCharging algorithm. I expect to have this ready during January.

Martin Hans

Awesome! Thanks for taking this on and thanks for letting me know that it is in your pipeline.

RasmusAnd

That is great to hear! Was just about to provide this feedback as well so pleasantly surprised to see that you are close to releasing this big improvement.

Lasse Karlsson

Hi Tobias - Any upodate on timeframe for this awesome feature? Thanks in advance!

Claus Kurtzmann

Hi Tobias, I think all this work is great. Is there any plans to add the remaining suppliers to the supplier list in the app. (I live in north of jutland, and have "Nord Energi" which is not an option.)
The graph that shows how the price is calculated (you mentioned it above as reassurance example) where can that be found in the portal?

Tobias S

Status changed to: Under review